swing and skip meta-masterclass

[absense]

Bloody brilliant thread... garage drums are definitely an art. You could be producing for 20 years and still not 'decode' or work out some grooves. Remember reading in your interview with Burial - he was making the same point about studying El-B's drums (i think), and he just couldn't work it out or replicate it. Those drums.

I've done the same think with Untrue (the actual song)... impossible to get the feel even when the sounds are different.

[Blackdown]

Burial's drums are totally organic because he doesnt even use a grid, he has no grid, so it's all done on feel.

[Demos]

great thread, i personally swing by hand, as i do all my drums as audio rather than midi. i turn the snap to grid off and zoom out so i have less precision with where i drag and drop my hats.

i also like to use old breaks, they have good natural swing.

[MJ Cole]

Ah well here we go. So many things which can influence a groove. To start with inaccurate sample chopping - i.e. not getting the start point quite right on hi hats can introduce a swing all of its own, so it's not necessarily all about the groove and the grid. Having said that I have used many different grooves - 16T on Cubase is where the Garage started for me. Now, being a Logic User, I go for the swing %age - 66% being triplets (16t's). I also use the MPC groove templates now - I'd recommend them highly. I always play in my drum patterns at about 80bpm and then quantize them. Velocities make a big difference. I quite often use a lo-fi plugin or bitcrusher to nasty things up a bit.

Having said all that it's all still about listening and tweaking. Happy swinging......

[grievousangel]

I too use the mpc grooves for logic. they're easy to find on the net. I use them for everything.

Can we have Sully on thread please, he's a badman...

[Blackdown]

the other factor is tempo. the faster you go the less room there is for hats to be swung ie moved between set grid positions. 140 = quite hard to get swing at 134 = much easier. part of why Kowton's Stasis g mix sounds SO swung is because it's 127ish. ie there's crazy space between respective 16th notes.

[Original Face]

Nice thread.

I find varying the weight of snare from the 2nd to the 4th often helps. Applying a similar method to the kick can work, too, with the heavier kick on the 1st beat of the bar (or on whatever part of the bar needs emphasis), and the lighter kick used in 'skippier' places (offbeats etc.).

[sully]

one thing ive noticed it that beats with a lot of bump have an inverse gravity where the bigger elements have more space around them than the lighter ones.
space is important as that is what creates the anticipation

[Cluelessbeats]

one thing ive noticed it that beats with a lot of bump have an inverse gravity where the bigger elements have more space around them than the lighter ones.
space is important as that is what creates the anticipation

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there" - Miles Davis

[colz]

Great thread!

[absense]

one thing ive noticed it that beats with a lot of bump have an inverse gravity where the bigger elements have more space around them than the lighter ones.
space is important as that is what creates the anticipation

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there" - Miles Davis

Getting deep!

[Dorcas Pelling]

Wookie used the 16B shuffle in Logic. 21 ticks. (but it was actually 20 ticks if that makes sense). All hat samples coming out of an emu64 sampler.

[glottis5]

i sent this thread to a few old school headz, El-B replied with this tip:

"I only swing the percussion BETWEEN the kick, snare & main hats. Its your choice how to swing them, via groove quantize, 16T or just by hand. I personally do it by hand to keep a natural/live feel to the drums."

Yeah, you have to have a couple of elements played straight otherwise your drum pattern won't make any sense and won't be funky. I mean, rhythms can only be swung if you have something that isn't swung to compare it to, if that makes any sense.

[mondays child]

[quote="MJ Cole"]Ah well here we go. So many things which can influence a groove. To start with inaccurate sample chopping - i.e. not getting the start point quite right on hi hats can introduce a swing all of its own, so it's not necessarily all about the groove and the grid. Having said that I have used many different grooves - 16T on Cubase is where the Garage started for me. Now, being a Logic User, I go for the swing %age - 66% being triplets (16t's). I also use the MPC groove templates now - I'd recommend them highly. I always play in my drum patterns at about 80bpm and then quantize them. Velocities make a big difference. I quite often use a lo-fi plugin or bitcrusher to nasty things up a bit.

quote]

This is good advice, sample envelopes can play a large part in this, messing around with ADSR times yields intersting results. Some good general tips in this thread though.

[willm]

Some good responses on this topic on dare I say it our "big brother forum" : http://www.dubstepforum.com/2-step-future-garage-drums-help-t107164.html